As a general point, it would be very helpful to 0Ls if the scam bLAWgers
could outline their decision to pursue law school in the first place...something that details expectations and the sources of those expectations. It would make
it easier to relate, given that we haven't matriculated. People with different
expectations/source of expectations may be more likely to have a different
experience.
Though I'm certainly not the level of fame in the scam blog community, I'm happy to respond.
Age entering law school: 21
Full time, permanent jobs held prior to law school: 0 (I went straight through college to law school)
Decision to apply to law school made: At age 21, 7 months shy of graduation from my engineering program.
Primary motivation for going to law school: Suggestion from then-girlfriend.
Number of law schools applied to: 5 (one top 25, one top 50, one second tier, two third tier)
Number of law schools accepted at: 5
Exposure to law prior to applying: One volunteer program coordinated by a lawyer, defended once in my youth in a situation that really shouldn't have required a lawyer. No legal coursework, political science, or even LSAT prep courses. One philosophy course taken as a sophomore.
Number of practicing lawyers among family, friends, and friends of family at the time I applied: 1 (my friend's father, who thought engineers were too stupid to breathe, especially in comparison to lawyers)
Number of non-practicing JDs among family, friends, and friends of family: 3 (though, at the time, I didn't know any had been to law school. None include the JD or Esq. on their business cards)
Recruiting pitch by law school I ultimately attended: I met with two attorneys from medium sized law firms who practiced patent law. They discussed salary expectations (between 90k and 120k starting, depending on geography), life-work balance (comparing it to the unpredictabilty of working for general practitioners), the importance of law school rankings on employment as a patent attorney, the importance of law school classes (very minimal), and projected employment percentage in the field (better than 97%). One encouraged me to apply to clerk at his firm during the school year and attend law school part time, stretching my matriculation to four years instead of three. The law school itself offered me a full tuition scholarship contingent on GPA. The admissions officers and deans who spoke to me also told me that if I chose not to pursue a career in law, my law degree would make me more attractive to a variety of employers, and that it would likely raise my starting salary by 5K to 10K.
Summary of my law school experience: Of the 80+ credits I had to take to get my degree, 40 were in required courses that have no practical impact on patent law. This included the entire first year, which bored and annoyed me by turns. I considered dropping out at the end of first year, but stayed in school because I had a GPA allowing me to continue attending law school for free* and secured a paid legal position first year. I did not write on for a journal, moot court, or join a clinic, opting instead to continue clerking for firms. My school assumed that almost all first years would take summer classes, so second and third years my typical school day was 12 hours long playing catch-up academically. I enjoyed all of my IP classes, and none of the remaining required courses. I hated most of my classes so much that halfway through my final semester, I spoke to the dean of my law school about dropping out and not finishing. He assured me that practicing for a firm would be more enjoyable than being in law school, and that I should stick out the final two months and take the bar exam. I held leadership positions in three student organizations, did well enough in OCI and at the Loyola Patent Law Interview Program, interviewing with about 22 firms total. I ultimately accepted a position for a firm I did not summer with.
Career: In 2008, I joined the firm after taking the bar exam (learning three months later that I had passed). My salary was above the range suggested in the law school's pitch to me (but almost everyone I studied with in law school makes less than $50,000/annum). Billing requirements are between 1800 and 2000 hours, depending on the year. Most of my coworkers arrive after 8 am and leave before 7 pm.
I've never felt especially welcome at the firm, and rarely felt like my colleagues gave a damn what happened to me after 7 pm on any given day. I focused on prosecuting patents, meaning I expected never to see court, and rarely was asked to do any of the legal research or memo writing law school trained me for. Following the stock collapse, patent prosecution work slowed and I and several newer associates began to work in litigation more. Litigation work is not my strong suit, my area of interest, or work I enjoy or find satisfying. I also don't get the training in patent prosecution I signed on for, because there is insufficient prosecution work to train new attorneys on. It's clear after two years at this firm that I will not have a straightforward path to partnership or otherwise controlling my career.
Outside of practicing, I have been looking for a different firm or an engineering firm in need of an entry level engineer since September. So far, I haven't been able to "do anything I want" with my law degree, as typical engineers consider me too expensive and unpolished, and law firms are generally uninterested in my level of experience (currently at the 2 year mark). I do have a benefit most lawyers don't have, in that I don't necessarily have to take another bar exam to practice law if I take a position in a different state, because patent law is federal law. Most of my graduating class, at least those working as lawyers, are geographically limited because we're too new to get reciprocity.
What do I want to do now: Practicing law is more interesting than law school, but I'm sure it's not what I want to do with the rest of my life. I'd prefer to move to engineering, if possible.
For law students and lawyers who aren't interested in patent law, after filing a patent application, it typically takes 18 months before that application is made public (meaning I can't use most of my work as writing samples. It typically takes around 18 to 24 months before the Patent and Trademark Office responds to an application, so at the two year mark, I don't even know what mistakes I made my first month.
*Tuition only. I paid (out of my pocket) way too much to live in a college town that I hated.
This was a very good read and was just what I was looking for. If you could pass along this questionnaire to the others to fill out, it could prove to be especially useful to 0Ls.
ReplyDeletea few things that stand out about your decision to pursue law school:
-based on a suggestion
-pursued immediately out of undergrad
I think the first one needs little explanation about why that could be problematic, but the second one is really interesting. I think there is a serious need to get out and explore after undergrad. I'll be the first to admit that this was a necessity for me. I didn't have another option, so in that sense, it may be more difficult for most to reach this conclusion. If everyone did this, I wonder if the "traditional" student, as you were, is likely to change at any point in future. In essence, I wonder how many out there who went straight into law school wish they had done something different. I wonder if the extra time would have helped them to narrow in on what they wanted to do in life. Would law school still be on their radar? Just curious.
But despite those 2 points, you do raise some interesting points about the quality of legal education itself, and the personable qualities (or lack thereof) of your colleagues. On the latter point, I'm not sure you'd find any different in most work environments. On the former, how should potentials go about finding out the full spectrum of opportunities that fit their interests before making the commitment, in your opinion? And do you think that being on a journal would have set you up better for the opportunities you wanted?
Thank you for sharing your insights.
Hi Danielle,
ReplyDeleteBriefly, in response to your follow up inquiries:
The fact that law school was a suggestion rather than my own dream might have had something to do wtih my feeligns on it. But given that a lot of law students didn't always dream of being lawyers, I imagine it's pretty relatable. Especially among the BA students I've known, following up undergrad with a "useful" degree is strongly encouraged by parents, friends, and career counselors.
The average age of incoming first year law students is around 24, most years, so I wasn't atypical. Part of the reason I went straight through was because, assuming I took an engineering position at an engineering salary, giving up that salary after working for a few years would be harder to stomach. Further, I didn't want to be in grad school, regardless of discipline, after 25. Based on friends who are over 25 and still working on various graduate degrees, I'm pretty sure I would have ended up burned out at 25 regardless of when I started a program.
As far as grading law firms before making a commitment - the law firm hiring model doesn't allow for it. Summer associates are wined and dined and socializing is part of the experience, May through August at a firm are completely different from September though April, from my experience. There's really a lot of sunken time spent getting into a firm before you're likely to know whether you'll be happy working with those lawyers. Just in terms of getting exposure working with a variety of lawyers at my firm took me two years. I can't think of anything that would have sped that process up.
A journal wouldn't have set me up much better, aside from being a different line on my resume. Being published carries some weight in interviews, but so does working for firms as a summer. Given that I don't particularly want to practice law any more, no, a journal wouldn't necessarily help me. I mostly just included that to say that I wasn't a hyper-aggressive law student or gunner, but I was a better than adequate student.